Gear Chronicle
What works and what doesn't
So I'm sure many of you have probably messed around either as or against Gear Chronicle, or at least heard and saw a couple signature cards of this new clan. A lot of people looked at what they have at their disposal, namely from pseudo-retire like Kagero or even a full-field wipe, to guard restriction in both the form of Glory and Tom and even a Stride with a bonus crit and guard restrictions, and screamed "WTF BUSHI! OP!!11!".
Yet this clan didn't even make a scratch on the meta; not just against new stuff like DOtX, Susanoo, but also against older stuff like RPBA, Thing Savior, or even just Jewel Knights and Perdition Dragons. So what exactly isn't working out for this clan, and why does having access to what many would deem as the most OP mechanics in the game, not get them to where people expected them to be?
There are actually a lot of factors that are not working out for these guys, and a lot of these factors are not only not unheard of, but ones that we have seen present in other clans.
The Deck is Slow and Vanilla
I initially looked at this and thought it would be something similar to the Limit Break, except that early guarding doesn't hinder it. I was wrong. Generation Break skills are often printed on cards of every grade, including G1 and G2 rear guards and even skilled triggers, and what this essentially means is that it's almost as if your rear guards are the ones having that LB4 printed on them.
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| Even the 12k beater is a GB1 unit... At least this card actually works. |
Currently almost everything Gear Chronicle has, has some form of Generation Break slapped onto their skill. And when they don't require Generation Break, other than a couple of cards, the card is either vanilla itself, has a heavy cost, or requires your VG to be a G-unit. What this ultimately means is that similar to a LB4 deck, your deck mechanics is offline until you hit at least GB1, except that your deck would be even more offline than a LB4 deck because in a LB4 deck, most if not all rear guards are still fully functional regardless of your damage.
This built-in slowness is only worsened by the fact that similar to Legion, Stride requires both players to be on a G3 or above vanguard to happen. What this means is that unlike LB4, having an opponent sit on G2 for an extra turn (which is a very viable and common strategy that we've been seeing ever since the Legion meta), will keep this deck up and playing for another turn of vanilla feast.
All of this doesn't even take into account match-ups against decks that have an incredible early game, like the Jewel Knight based decks that can consistently and easily swarm a whole field on their turn 2 for a very cheap cost and start beating faces, and then proceed to keep the pressure going with stuff like Saint Blow that pretty much tells you to PG or die after having
The Deck has no Built-In Advantage Engine
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| This card is broken. Like, super broken. Such wombo, much combo. Wow. |
The other issue with Gear Chronicle's pseudo-retire at the moment is that it cannot keep up with clans that superior call a lot. Clans like Royal Paladin can superior call just as cheaply as Gear Chronicle can retire, but also at the same time, can superior call a lot faster than Gear Chronicle is capable of wiping out each turn. Take a common combo for example, Violinist can fetch a Swordmy, who can in turn fetch any G1 Jewel Knight. Now all that took is 1 card from the RP player to instantly fill up 3 RG slots on the field, and it isn't even a multi-card combo where the player is required to have multiple pieces in hand; all it takes is 1 card. Take another example, the RP player can Stride into Gablade, and then use Gablade's skill to fetch Violinist, and then fetch Swordmy, and then fetch a G1 Jewel Knight. In this case, the RP player doesn't even need a specific card in hand; all he needs is to be able to Stride and punch you in the face to instantly fill up 3 RG slots.
The Deck has a Shallow Card Pool
This issue, while will (hopefully) be fixed by time itself, is still an issue they currently have. There really just isn't enough choices for Gear Chronicle at the moment, and they are forced to often choose between bad choice and worse choices when it comes to deck building. Considering, however, that Gear Chronicle is a 'main' clan, I'm not too worried about this one for them. I'd be worried about mah Pale Moon and Granblue before I start worry about this issue for Gear Chronicle.
What Works and What Doesn't... For Now
Now, Gear Chronicle has access to, like what I mentioned earlier, a lot of "OP" mechanics. However, a lot of them don't actually work, or at least work the way you expect them to be. This is mainly a list of cards that works and those that don't work, sorta like a card review.
Interdimensional Dragon, Chronos Command Dragon
This card does not work. Or at least not nearly as well as you'd think it would or hope it would. Honestly, this card is the worst of all the Stride units Gear Chronicle have access to as of now, and I would expect this card to be replaced very quickly unless they get something that would make it bonkers. First of all, his cost is high. Very high actually, to the point that he struggles to even make is effect a break even or worthwhile in most cases. Lets first take a few steps back and just ignore that SB1 cost for a moment. For CB2, Chrono Jet can already retire 2 on his own. Add a discard 1 hand-cost, that needs to be worth at least another card retired for this effect to just make it break even. Then we take in the opportunity cost of Lost Age Dragon's on-hit retire 1 for free because that's your best alternative. What this means is that, ignoring the soul-blast cost, he has to retire at least 2 + 1 + 1 = 4 cards just to break even. So the only thing Chronos Command has really, is his speed and pressure of evaporating an entire field in an instant if it hits. In most cases however, you either could just straight win the game if you successfully hit with a Ragnaclock Dragon, or is just plain better off using Lost Age Dragon, further leaving this guy sitting on the bench. Not to mention that you have to leave at least 2 CBs and 1 SB open for him to even apply pressure, which while isn't terribly hard, isn't terribly easy either. He does, however, bait out PGs early on for Ragnaclock to beat face later. But that's really about it. Overall, not a great card.
Interdimensional Dragon, Ragnaclock Dragon
This card, on the other hand, not only works well, but also is one of the few cards that is carrying the rest of deck on his back. He is deadly and pressuring, and is a great card to Stride into to finish someone off or just to swing in mid game just for the pressure or instant damage gap. Ultimately it's not a Glory clone nor a restander, but a often 32k 2-crit triple-drive Silent Tom for basically no setup is nothing to scoff at. He is both capable of stealing games and turning the tables. However, since a simple PG can still easily stop him, do not rely nor trust this card to turn the tables or win the game for you. He's a still great card, but just not a dependable option to bet all your eggs on.
Interdimensional Dragon, Lost Age Dragon
This card works well. It's one of those 'simple is marvelous' cards where the effect is so simple, yet so effective. Stride him on Chrono Jet, you get up to 2 retires that turn, which is usually enough anyways when compared to Chronos Command.
Chrono Jet Dragon
As much as how he works and works fairly well, I refuse to post his card image because I still hate his art. Anyways, his on-stride skill is fairly useful. Pop an interceptor down and they have 5k less shielding against your Ragnaclock Dragon. Or just pop some priority target down and the swing as Lost Age Dragon for some cheap retiring. Doesn't work too well with Chronos Command for obvious reasons. His Glory skill can also come in handy if the time calls, although often you'd just Stride anyways. It's also interesting to note that since his Generation Break is the opposite of Ragnaclock Dragon's skill, using one doesn't really make it easier to land a hit on your opponent with the other. However what it does mean is if you know what they have in their hand, you can choose the one that hurts your opponent the most.
Steam Fighter, Amber
This may come at a surprise... that this guy doesn't really work as well as one would hope he does. He has several issues. First off is that he's slow, and is vanilla until you stride. Second off is that he requires boosting, which when there are a lot of retires flying around and with 8/14 of your G1s that you'd usually want to avoid boosting with (namely the PG/PGG and Steam Breath), is actually quite hard to achieve reliably especially considering that Gear Chronicle has no draw power. Lastly, Gear Chronicle is relatively resource intensive, and often times either your Chrono Jet already covers his job making him redundant, or you need to leave the CBs open for your Ragnaclock to use. It is also important to make note that he has to attack before your Ragnaclock to remove an interceptor for your Ragnaclock either from his skill or just as a RG attack, risking and giving your opponent a chance to damage check a trigger to make guarding Ragnaclock easier. Overall, he doesn't really work.
Steam Knight, Puzur Ili
OMG Silent Tom!!11!! Okay guys, chill out. His SB2 cost makes him basically vanilla 99% of the time. I for one still have not had a chance to have his skill go off even once out of who knows how many games I tested. The souls often just go to Gigi because drawing 1 card is pretty darn important when your deck has no way to plus. Seriously, this guy doesn't really work. Getting his skill to work is just as his flavor text implies: "It is not zero. Just an extremely small probability."
Other than these cards I listed above, a couple of other cards are worth mentioning but I don't feel like I need to go into detail for:
- Twin Maser Dragon actually works despite being slow. It works about as well as Burning Horn Dragon or other G3-based 12k beaters are, but just still a tiny bit slower then those.
- Apex Standing Gearwolf doesn't really work. His skill often just doesn't matter because Gear Chronicle can't really retire enough times in a turn to make it matter. He also needs to boost G3s and Twin Master Dragon to work when often times you need your G3s as Stride cost.
- Steam Maiden, Elulu is actually not bad and works better than that trash known as Fatewheel Dragon. Her +5k skill also puts your opponent into Ragnaclock's kill zone faster, and SB1 cost is very easy to manage in this deck. I like her better than both Ruin Disposal and Fatewheel.
- Ruin Disposal Dragon kinda works and kinda doesn't. He doesn't really work with Stride since Legion's timing and Stride's timing are just off. He is, however, your only way to put things back into your deck, and only way to fill the soul (via riding).
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| I like both the art and skill of this over Ruin Disposal and Fatewheel |
So that's about all I have to say regarding Gear Chronicle for now until they get more new stuff to mess with. And since real life is still hard and busy I have no idea when my next update will be. We'll see.
Oh and I forgot to mention, Steam Maiden, Ululu is Steam Maiden, Elulu's older sister. I await for Bushi to release their other possible sisters, namely Alulu, Ilulu, and Olulu because あいうえお
Given how, with Gigi, you can only draw 1 per game in Gear Chronicle, exactly how much does that draw matter? Seeing that Gear Chronicle's playstyle leans towards messing the opponent's advantage up instead of allowing you to gain yours, I personally feel that the lone draw is rather off, and using Fate Rider to grab Gigi means you lose out on the chance for a good booster for Amber or wait one more turn for Ragnaclock due to a second use of Fate Rider. Just a reminder, what should be called an advantage engine shouldn't be something that lets you gain your advantage, but should instead be something that widens the advantage gap between you and your opponent in your favor.
ReplyDeleteAnd now that Fate Rider is out, Chronos is complete trash because you would probably want to tutor a booster in exchange for the starter anyway during your first Stride turn, right? And pointing out (in future updates, if you're going to update this article) that Elul is a costless Fatewheel might be pretty interesting. More than that, I want opinions on Ishin and Mesh-he (Mesuhede, damn English Bushiroad) since I personally think they're great together, giving a much better use of soul and, with the new Crit, actually makes them usable alongside Puzur-Ili for a guard restriction Gears deck.
It is exactly because the deck has zero way to draw, that the draw 1 matters. The draw one could allow you retire more, could save yourself from guarding with a card that does your retire, could replace something that was killed, could force out more shield, could buy you time. And the beauty of Fate Rider is you not only don't HAVE to get Gigi (although you usually would), but you can get whatever you please, and can safely run Gigi at 1 or 2 to function. This is also why you often see 6 draw Kageros before Calamity Tower was released; that extra draw can easily widen the gap of 'messing your opponent up'.
ReplyDeleteAnd 2nd use of Fate Rider is rarely used before you deplete your Ragnaclock. He shines as the initial ride along with Lost Age and Chronos Command depending on the situation, and he shines as the stride that comes after Chronos Command for a big push. Fate Rider is simply amazing in theory and in practice because of how ridiculously flexible he is and how reliable me makes teching a thing (disclaimer: teching everything is bad, here I mean you tech only a couple cards @1 or 2. You want Fate Rider to boost your consistency, not act as a crutch).
As for Chronos Command, he's not completely garbage because he fulfills a completely different role as Fate Rider, hence he's still the situational card he was. Chronos Command is still the only card that will guarantee your opponent to lose at least 2 cards regardless of hitting or not, and still is the only card that can effectively force your opponent to guard early on when you're playing against a deck that vomits a full field. All this of course doesn't mean Chronos Command is now suddenly good, but just that he's still want he is and his role and position has not been altered at all.
As for is Fate Rider always going to be your first stride? No. Chronos Command will situationally still be the better candidate, and Lots Age will also still situationally be a better candidate. Just Fate Rider will be the initial stride most of the time because of Gigi, Amber, and Mesh-he.
As for Elulu, I'm not sure how she has anything to do with Fate Wheel; both cost a soul and has an effect on-ride, but one pushes in damage, and one retires stuff before you have to wait until GB1.
Finally, regarding Meshe-he and Ishin, I'm still testing the cards. Meshe-he is a decent tech @1~2, although usually 1 has been enough because GC can't really see the effect of that unflipped CB until very very late into the game, and doesn't really need Meshe-he most of the time. Ishin's guard restriction has not been really handy so far; it's pretty rare to find an event where she would both be triggered and for the Tom effect to matter.
The new crit though is a god send; it allows for a lot of flexibility and can make plays, and also works well with Puzur-Iri
1. I apologize deeply beforehand, however I still don't understand why a measly random draw 1 can help you that much. Doesn't the clan have much better soul users that can (help) kill the opponent right there and then in the form of the Silent Tom clones? Even in the least efficient conditions (SB2 Puzur or CB2 Ishin, no triggers checked during Triple Drive), you're either depleting 2 cards from the opponent's hand or dealing one damage in the process. Advantage-wise, both are strictly better than one random draw. And 6 draw Kagero is kinda stupid, even without Calamity Tower. Why get a random draw into a possible 10k shield total instead of an extra damage and a guaranteed 10k shield?
DeleteAnd, have you ever tried the current GC without Gigi? Because, once again, one random draw is very unlikely to matter so much, and calling Gigi to the side means you get a worse column while calling Gigi to the center is pointless given that, with Stride (Ragna-Chronos), you are getting PG'd anyway.
2. That Fate Rider is so good and so flexible, I couldn't agree more with. However, given how long the game has gone, and the three Triple Drives you have, what is there to call during late game? With the starter gone, your only options are either swapping boosters for attackers (with Gigi, Steam Breath, and Arlim, you only have 4 cards to boost properly with, and you probably wouldn't want to lose them during such a critical state in the game) or swapping a Grade 2 for a Grade 3, which is downright stupid.
3-4. I actually know, and was overreacting (and am sorry for it) when I typed my previous comment. I personally use 1 Chronos, 1 Lost Age, 2 Fate Rider, and 4 Ragna in my CFA build.
5. What I mean is that Fatewheel costs CB1 to block Grade 0s, while Elul, after Fate-Ragna-Ragna, has extremely huge power that demands a PG to block if the defending side doesn't want to minus into oblivion.
6. How has Ishin "not really been handy"? You can activate her everytime you stride on Chronojet, use Amber, or perform Legion. That's a good number of ways that are likely to happen in each of your games. With Ishin actually using more CB, Mesh-he should become more useful, converting CB into soul, which can be refilled with the new crit (none of the Margal clones, please, you have so many killing chances in this game; not using 12 crit means not abusing it and is probably stupid). Extra soul can always go to Puzur, if you somehow have 2 soul after Mesh-he and a Puzur on the field.
Anyway, thanks so much for the reply, all viewpoints are appreciated.
By the way, how does this decklist sound? I've been using it so far.
1x Gunner Gear (I get the fact that this is vanilla until GB1, but by GB1 I would be replacing this using Fate Rider anyway, and during early game I'd rather have a 5k booster compared to a 4k one, even if said 4k booster has early game utility, because said utility has 40% chance to fail at resulting in a wash and a 100% probability of losing a booster early game)
12 crit 4 heal
4x PGG
4x Steam Breath
3-4x Dizkal (3 if 2 Mesh-he isn't enough; right now I'm using 3, but am never going to lower it any more)
2-3x Mesh-he
4x Puzur-Ili
4x Ishin
3x Amber (backup to Chronojet, really, if I don't have Ishin and Mesh-he on the field by the moment I stride; I would then pass on Chronojet's skill and use Amber's instead to actually activate Ishin)
4x Chronojet (not even debatable)
4x Ruin Disposal (on-Legion bottomdecking (gimme a better term plz) means free Ishin activation, and double crit with double Ishin induces so much rage. Also helps with soul when re-ridden over)
4x Ragna
2x Fate Rider
1x Chronos
1x Lost Age
1.) Here's the thing with Tom Clones: when your VG is something like Ragnaclock, your opponent is well within the kill zone and must guard your VG attack when they're at 3 damage. What does using a Tom skill at that moment do? Not very much unless they're sitting at 4 damage or 5 damage, because they're not really forced to guard your Tom attack yet as they can easily take the damage. When you actually have Silent Tom who is free, this is perfectly fine because you gradually push them into a position where Tom will be a great threat. When your Tom is consuming 2 souls per attack though, it's not such a great thing anymore, as that privilege comes at a very steep cost.
ReplyDeleteAs for why Gigi is good, it's the same reason why Calamity Tower and Rising Phoenix as well as Light Signal Penguin Soldier are so good and that they are like god-sends to those clans; they provide draw to a deck without any way to draw. Drawing 1 may not sound like much, but in any card game, direct advantage is part of the absolute core of the game; short by 1 card and you can very likely lose the game. Gain one more card and you are more likely to find a solution to answer your current situation, or force them in a worse position than they are already in. Even if it's a 'worse' booster, Gigi can still trigger your Amber as a booster, boost the VG and call it a day, or boost Twin Mancer and not hurt yourself one bit. 'A measly draw' is in no way a valid reason to just ignore the value of one extra card, especially when the competition for that 1 extra draw at the moment is very weak. One card is still a card. Otherwise by the same token, 'a retire is a measly retire', which is not true at all; each and every direct advantage counts, whether or not it's 1 or not 1, because they add up. In the case of draws and retires, they just come with different forms, and you get diminishing returns the more you have on one of them (eg. retires are useless when there is nothing of value to retire, and extra draws matter less once you hit a state where there are starting to be cards stuck in hand that's just sitting there and not getting used)
And 6 draw Kagero is far from a stupid setup. 6 draw 6 crit is a tried-and- true trigger lineup that works for decks that have trouble flowing and getting cards properly. Draw triggers are also the most defensive of triggers because they're also the only ones that don't have their trigger skills wasted when it gets in the damage zone. Also keep in mind, just because your opponent is running 6 draws, they're still running 6 crits (or 7 crits), so it's still not safe to just let a VG attack through, meaning you're not losing out much in that regards as center columns still need to be guarded. Draws also work extremely well when you have a way to filter them out for other stuff, such as through DOtG, as the checked draws easily rise in quality.
2.) Or you simply shuffle back a trigger for a booster, or just swap whatever is appropriate to reach or maintain a healthy field . Keep in mind there is no reason to draw a box and think within the box; what's wrong with shuffling back a trigger? What's wrong with getting a G3 if one of your side columns is a Gigi/trigger and can form 16k with it? You lose a 5/10k shield? Does it matter when you're going for a final push? Do you absolutely need that trigger in hand to survive the next turn? Is it of more value to attempt to force out more cards this turn? These are all questions you should ask yourself. Don't draw boxes and rule out paths just because they seem like a worse choice than others most of the time; adapt to the situation is key.
3/4.) I'm running the same G-zone setup.
Delete5.) oh. Well GC or any Stride oriented decks' G3s rarely use the GB ability, and same applies to Elulu and Fate Wheel so those effects rarely matter. As for Fate Wheel and Elulu though, I'm not sure if I can call a Glory skill being the same as a huge beat stick. They are similar in that the goal is the same (harder to guard), but how they achieve it is quite different, and in general it's easier to guard Fate Wheel (10k + intercept, for example) than it is to guard Elulu.
6.) test her out yourself. Sure, you can activate her when you Chrono Jet. Add Ragnaclock and her own cost that's a whopping CB3 per play. Triggering and using her ability is one thing, how often that skill matters and how much it matters is another. While I agree the more crit the better, keep in mind if your deck ends up being inconsistent, it'll cost you more games than you think. Snowballing goes both ways; you can sack a couple early crits and proceed to snowball to victory, or you can have random card pieces here and there but never all the pieces to make a proper impact and get snowballed.
As for Gunner Gear, it does too little too late for his skill. While it is true that Timepiece has a 40% failure rate, keep in mind you're not using him 100% of the time. So when you add pathing to the equation, Timepiece is not as bad as the 40% fail rate you are seeing. For example, even if we assume to use Time Piece's skill in 60% of your games, 60% * 40% = 24%, meaning even if you are forced to use Timepiece's skill in over half your games, out of all of your games where you will see Timepiece fail and matter only accounts for 24% of your total games. Fate Rider also means you're not forced to use Timepiece when you don't have to.
As for Mesh-he, 2 is really more than enough. Dizkal kinda needs to be run at high concentrations for it to work because he functions the best in early game, so yes, don't drop it anywhere under 3 if you're planning to run Dizkal. Otherwise you can run Ulunin, who is another very solid choice.
Other than that, deck looks fine if you're shooting for 12 crits. It's not like GC has much choice to run to begin with lol. But Puzur-Ili is really nowhere near as good as you think, not to mention he competes souls with Mesh-he if you're planning to abuse Ishin. I really wouldn't run more than 3 Pazur-Ilis, and 2 is very often enough.
'6 draw 6 crit is a tried-and- true trigger lineup that works for decks that have trouble flowing and getting cards properly.'
DeleteTo be fair, has anyone actually given evidence for this? People seem to use it because in theory it ought to help. But theory != evidence. One could say 'people wouldn't run it if it didn't work.' Well, then we'd still need to see the evidence that allowed them to conclude that it works. Also, that a certain lineup works != the lineup works better than another lineup.
1. That's where 12 crits come in. You get maximum chances of critting, resulting in either Ragna putting the opponent into a Tom's kill zone if the former hits, or a Tom clone being able to outright kill or at least put the opponent into 5 damage, where any hit kills them. PGing Ragna means that all your crits get stacked onto a Tom, and then you proceed to Drill Bunker (sorta) your opponent with it. That's either damage or 2 cards, once again, and with more crits it only gets better. 12 crits increases the Tom clones' overall utility, although I do admit that Puzur is just for backup and is used whenever necessary.
ReplyDeleteWait, the SB2 draw 1 clones were ever useful? Like, a tech of 2 with 5k power in clans that have no draw/call advantage engine (according to your definition) can become consistent? In GC, there's at least Fate Rider tutoring it. In AqF, Kagero, and Narukami, you probably won't see it until late game. While "a measly draw" may or not may be a proper reason to ignore the value of one card, the fact that it's random is. As opposed to retiring or any other form of field control, you don't know what you're going to draw and how much it benefits you, if it actually does. In retires or field control, you know what the opponent has and can then proceed to calculate the possible combination and advantage that can be gained with your current resources. Utility Grade 1? Goodbye. Interceptors? Nuked. High-threat units? See ya later. Attack extension in Spike Brothers? Lock Lock Lock. The point is, you know how much the opponent is going to lose and how much of your available resources you are going to spend. With those SB2 draw 1 clones, you're taking a gamble on a random draw, and are sacrificing the opportunity cost of running a better unit in the first place. This only worsens if you only have one chance to actually use the card; you're playing a roulette with only one coin remaining while that one coin can actually be used for something more guaranteed. Between a guaranteed "regular" advantage and a chance-based mass advantage, I would personally pick the former. Meanwhile, diminishing returns aren't exactly the best method to calculate advantage here, because quality advantage differs from quantity advantage. Quantity advantage is calculated through the possible boosts/attacks and the shields a card has, and those do not diminish since every time you draw/retire, you gain more shield, you prevented an attack/intercept; all these have numbers that can be calculated. Quality advantage brings it deeper into the card's skills, however; you look at the whole card, not just the numbers on it. By diminishing returns, you would mean that (for example) after retiring an opposing Dorint, the only booster left on the field is a draw trigger that has no quality and is probably not worth retiring. However, looking at a quantitative point of view, it is still a unit that boosts for one stage, and because there is an 11k Grade 3 in front of it, I would still want to retire one unit in that column, even when both units are vanilla (and the Grade 3 has no shield) because, not only can said column form 16k, both units in said column are of no other purpose and can be retired by Abyss or Raging Form for their skills. The opponent, in turn, doesn't lose too much, therefore, from my own point of view, those vanilla units are still of quantity value and I would still retire them, even if they're worthless quality-wise. The opponent's field wouldn't exactly decrease in quality (a draw trigger booster can be replaced easily, so is an attacker), however it would decrease in quantity, forcing the opponent to call more units from the hand or via skills.
6 draw 6 crit is safe to no-guard at 4 damage, because 6 is like half of 12, and that greatly reduces the possibility of getting killed at 4. They still have 6 crits, but they don't have 12. Once again, letting the vanguard attack through gets a lot safer, and therefore you lose fewer cards. And, if you have to filter a draw trigger to actually increase its worth, why not run a trigger that's worth more in the first place instead? You wouldn't need to use said filter. And honestly no 12 crit in restanding decks is a waste of opportunity cost.
Delete2. Strict loss of shield, that's what. I also ask myself those questions whenever I play, and I only make suboptimal plays when I'm more than 100% confident that I can win it that very turn with those plays. Any further doubts and I would be anticipating the stuff that might happen. Moreover, those "boxes" I "draw" probably contain the most optimal steps and solutions to issues I might have during a game, and, like mentioned before, I only screw everything else and gun for victory when I'm sure that suboptimal plays will win me the game that turn.
3-4. Alright. "By the way, is there any reason that your reply is separated?" was still unanswered before I posted this, and now I know why.
5. It's because that "in general it's easier to guard Fate Wheel (10k + intercept, for example) than it is to guard Elulu" that I had the suggestion in the first place.
6. Mesh-he converts one CB to soul and cheapens the effect a bit, making it more sustainable, and I will of course look out for any inconsistencies and losses (not just game losses, I mean opportunity, quality, quantity, etc.) caused by those inconsistencies, although I believe that even without draw power the deck is consistent enough at doing what it's meant to do.
About Timepiece, that's not exactly what I meant. What I'm trying to say is that, unless you go first, Timepiece is a liability. Let's say that I play Timepiece when I don't have a Grade 3 (that would be 20% of my games) and the chances of going first or second are 50% each. When I go second, boosting with Timepiece is the same with not having a booster, so that's a liability 50% of the time. When I do go first, during 20%/2 = 10% of that 50%, I will incur a liability due to the loss of Timepiece. That's a total of 60% of my games with Timepiece not doing anything as an early game booster, and that hasn't even taken into account the failure rate of Timepiece. Whether I wash (60%) or minus (40%) from Timepiece's skill, in either case, I lose a booster, and that loss, as well as the aforementioned liability whenever I'm going second, is what I'm trying to argue upon right now. With Gunner Gear, you get a 5k boost, and that boost actually matters in all of my games. Midgame, I would then proceed to either convert it into Stride fodder or convert it into a good booster. Timepiece staying on the field would mean that you've been boosting for 4k all early game.
I guess I'll stick to 4 Dizkal 2 Mesh-he. Mesh-he being a promo discourages me to actually grab anymore than 2.
Thanks for all the advice. I know Puzur-Ili isn't that good, therefore I'm not running him as a main gambit. He backs Ishin up, and acts as an extra Ishin whenever I can have 2 Silent Toms on the field. I run him at 4 for consistency purposes and because I do run Ruin Disposal.
Oh and I tried the new Legion, it sucked like hell due to the reliance on Amber, and with Ishin the skill of the old Legion just became way better.
1/2.) Not sure why makes you think it's suddenly safe to eat a VG attack @4 when a 6/6 or 5/7 lineup is still running a considerable amount if critical triggers. With a triple drive, that's still 1/3 chance to get a crit on a given drive check session. Unless you think that 33% death rate is low... which it's not. And no, draws still average out to be 10k shields, so you're not 'losing shield' on average. You also don't have to 'filter out' a draw trigger to increase its worth; unless you manually draw into a draw trigger (which can happen from the draw phase at once per turn frequency), drive checking a draw trigger on average is the same shield value as any given trigger, and any damaged checked draw trigger comes as a pure direct +1, and given how often the latter occurs, it's much more likely to check a draw trigger than it is to draw into one. There is then also the fact where as a control-based deck (via retires), it is very likely attacks can end up being guarded through a simple 5k shield here and there, and when you are guarding with 10k shields in those cases, you're effectively wasting shield quality. Draws split the shield up to allow you to guard more flexibly and allows for much more wiggle room for PGs without compromising or being forced much less frequently to discard something you need.
ReplyDeleteIf you have been misinformed because of a infamous CFV community online, I highly suggest you stop taking that community too seriously.
3/4.) because big blocks of words are hard to read. Paragraphs related to the same idea/topic is easier to read.
5.) yeah. Fate Wheel is pretty trash.
6.) GC doesn't start really using CBs until GB1. That's 6 turns into the game at the soonest. GC usually uses up to 2 CBs a turn, and doesn't really deplete CBs until you deplete your Ragnaclocks. That's 10 turns into the game the soonest. So the benefit of the unflip usually isn't seen until that time, meaning it's incredibly show and the gain isn't that great. Speed means a lot in almost any game, and CFV is no different.
As for Timepiece, do what you want. Honestly, both FVGs are garbage. Timepiece is just less garbage because he provides much greater utility that the other one can never do (and a very game changing utility on top of that), and the other one's merit of 'guaranteeing a break even' is way too little too late to be worth the wait (one can be used 2 turns into the game while the other requires at least 6, and is only usable when you DON'T need it). Either way though, both FVGs are pretty garbage.
As for Meshe-he, you really won't need more than 2. Much less so with Fate Rider. So I wouldn't worry about getting more than that; I really won't. And yes new Legion was garbage the moment I saw it; it can't even function independently in a deck with little consistency.
I saw froilz post about this while lurking, so I take the opportunity to interject on some points:
ReplyDeleteTriggers.
6 Draw is balls. Even in Spike Brothers where I feel forced into the lineup due to froilz exact reason, it's balls. Why? Decreased pressure and as odd as it sounds, those 2 lost 10000 shields pop up more than you think. Tried and true? By who? Eternal Flames? His decks all look wonky as hell anyway. I google things, get linked there, sigh, look, tilt my head sideways, say 'no' and close the window.
Likewise, in a slow deck without both battle advantage built in and advantageous +1s, 12 Critical/Stand is a bit on the wonky side. You've slowed down the game playing something like Kagero, Narukami, Link Joker and Gear Chronicle. You have no battle tempo and your only means of getting ahead is disruptive +1s. You take what plusses you can get. Likewise, 2/4 of these clans have good Draw Triggers, Gattling and the Margal Clone.
8-4-4 feels just right, and the numbers back me up on this;
At 6 Critical, during Twin Drive, the chance of hitting 1 Critical is 23.2. 2 is 1.2
At 8 Critical, during Twin Drive, the chance of hitting 1 Critical is 30.2. 2 is 2.3.
7%? Moderate to significant difference.
As for the Luck Bird clone, yeah, I'd run it over anything else costing 2 Soul in Gear. Tom+Glory, with Glory being on VG, doesn't particularly work well. Can't use G1 on VG? Oh good, because I can still use it on Tom. Now a Vanguard that is Tom paired up with Tom? Insane amount of losses or PGs rapidly depleting. Tom and Glory don't mesh in general.
G Zone and Striding
Lost Age and Chronos are interchangable, depending on the field. Punish rush? Chronos. Playing someone not stupid? Lost Age. While it would be nice to use Gigi and whatever other Soul Costing units Gears have, if you see a opening, you should take it. Anyway, you'll still have 2 Soul once you use the Margal clone or starter, preferably the later.
You're not always going to need Fate Rider. It's an odd little card that has two functions, both a field fixer and a relatively free finisher if Ragna fizzled out. You don't always need field fixing.
Likewise, the appropriate Stride Chain seems to be;
Lost Age/Chronos>Lost Age/Fate/Ragna>Ragna>Ragna/Fate>Fate, depending on the game. GC is a control clan after all and you need to read the game state to take appropriate action.
Fatewheel
I actually prefer Fatewheel to Elul, despite seeing the functionality of both. Having a Starter sniped, with the starters as slow as they are now? It hurts. That alone pushes it. Now why he's a RR and Double Perish Dragon is a Common? I'm not sure, given that the set after has a Glory Clone, an easily activated one mind you, as an R.
But yes, saying that, Base 11000 + what, 12000 + Boost? You can push her to 31000 easily with just playing normally and shoving an 8000 G1 behind her, provided you used that over Dizkal for reasons I wouldn't understand.
Ishin and Mesh-he
I didn't even know GC had Mesh-he. He kinda allows you to go nuts with field control. I like him. Ishin? As stated, Tom on R with a Glory VG doesn't work too well. All these Tom clones are best if you're sitting on Fatewheel to be honest.
holycrap never expected this much traffic in my blog, since I update very infrequently, and with all the messed up replying hierarchy, it's starting to get confusing which is when and what is what. I'll try my best to NOT make this look more mixed-up than it already is; bear with me. Unfortunately it is too long so I have to split it in 2 parts...
ReplyDelete----------------@ozero91--------------
>>To be fair, has anyone actually given evidence for this? People seem to use it because in theory it ought to help. But theory != evidence. One could say 'people wouldn't run it if it didn't work.' Well, then we'd still need to see the evidence that allowed them to conclude that it works. Also, that a certain lineup works != the lineup works better than another lineup.
First, define 'evidence' before you go any further. Although honestly, I think years of repetitive showing of such lineup over the course of the game is already pretty self-explanatory. Before you start throwing "tournaments don't count" at me, liet me first say that given a large enough sample size, it's very unlikely you can just blame things to 'chance/pure luck'. If we see each individual tournament result as a data point, there's already plenty of data points on this.
--------------------------@Some Gamer Dude----------------------
>>At 6 Critical, during Twin Drive, the chance of hitting 1 Critical is 23.2. 2 is 1.2
At 8 Critical, during Twin Drive, the chance of hitting 1 Critical is 30.2. 2 is 2.3.
you need to update this section here; we now live in the era of Triple Drives (at least Gear Chronicle for sure is).
So:
@6 crits, chance of hitting at least 1 crit is 29.407%
@7 crits, chance of hitting at least 1 crit is 32.713% <--- what I've been running
@8 crits, chance of hitting at least 1 crit is 35.606%
and since Christopher Martinus is planning to run 12, I'll also list it here for his reference
@12 crits, chance of hitting at least 1 crit is 43.38%
also thanks for bring up the momentum part. I completely forgot about that aspect.
In general, I consider evidence to be good, defensible reasons to believe in a conclusion. It doesn’t have to be journal-level experimental papers per se. But it does need to be sound. In this context though, a large sample size is necessary but not sufficient for good data. Because the tournament isn’t a result of just trigger lineups, but player skill, matchup strengths, deck popularity and other factors. Good data narrows the factors down and gives everything a proper representation. Narrowing these factors down after the fact is extremely difficult, because (for example) we don’t have info as to player skill and matchup ratios (these are hard to quantify numerically, even if you have general idea like Kagero vs Aqua Force). Thus, tournament results are not good data for determining the effectiveness of trigger lineups. Tournament results don’t solve the issue, because they just kick the problem back in time. Suppose I ask, why do people enter tournaments with such and such trigger lineups? One could answer, because previous tournaments have shown them to be effective. But that’s circular reasoning, because whether or not a trigger lineup is effective is precisely the crux of the issue. And like I said, what evidence do we have that various trigger lineups were tested equally before one was declared to be the best for a particular deck?
Delete
ReplyDelete------------------@Christopher Martinus--------------
>>1. That's where 12 crits come in. You get maximum chances of critting, resulting in either Ragna putting the opponent into a Tom's kill zone if the former hits, or a Tom clone being able to outright kill or at least put the opponent into 5 damage, where any hit kills them. PGing Ragna means that all your crits get stacked onto a Tom, and then you proceed to Drill Bunker (sorta) your opponent with it. That's either damage or 2 cards, once again, and with more crits it only gets better. 12 crits increases the Tom clones' overall utility, although I do admit that Puzur is just for backup and is used whenever necessary.
Now that's the point of draws; you're already assuming an idea field will be there for your crits to function like how you think they would. Problem is, good/great/ideal fields/plays/counters/etc don't just magically happen. This is also why the more draw/filter/recruiting ability a deck has, the more likely and the more benefit they gain with more critical triggers/stand triggers (depending on deck, if deck is heavy on on-hit/magic numbers, then stands can stand out more to do a 6/6 crit/stand split), because their deck engine can already safely assume a near-ideal or an idea field/setup. With decks that don't have such luxury? Even just setting up a proper column can prove to be problematic and inconsistent.
And Some Gamer Dude also brought up a very good point that I completely forgot; some decks need momentum and thrives on momentum. Some decks slow the game down, and plays reactively according to your opponent. Gear Chronicle is (at least at the moment it still is) a control deck, which belongs to the latter group. For decks like (what I'm more known for) Silver Thorn, even without any advantage engine other than the very slow Luquiers, I ditch all draw triggers in exchange for stands/criticals for that very reason (as you can see from my deck lab history). Deck has and plays on momentum. Gear Chronicle, Kagero and the likes however, do not fit in that category.
>>Wait, the SB2 draw 1 clones were ever useful? ....not copied here because too long to quote...
First of all, a draw from Gigi consuming 2 souls is really a break even with a Pazu-Ili forcing opponent to guard with 1 more, and a break even with 2 unflips that you often won't see the effect kick in until several turns later. It's not like you're giving up everything for that draw; you can still retire and (in your case, Ishin) use Tom skills normally, and can still Ragnaclock. This 1 draw is not locking you out of those options. I'm not sure why you're treating it as if that's the case. I'm not giving up my entire game's retires and Toms for that 1 random draw; I'm trading potentially 1 retire or 1 Tom skill out of however many you can achieve for that 1 draw.
Then there is also how the random draw is (much, much) faster. The random draw doesn't rely on your opponent. The random draw increases consistency. The quality of a retire completely relies on your opponent. The effectiveness of a retire also completely relies on your opponent. For example, retire one RP unit? They have many more sitting in their deck/hand ready to be called that were as dead as dead weight before. They already earned that 'bonus' -1 or -2 or 1 to 2 damage from that unit the turn before because it happened way way way earlier than your retire. Retire a unit from a VG focused deck? Are you hurting as much as you think you are? The current meta game is no longer the old 16/16/16 or 16/21/16 days we used to see; it's now something like 0/33/16 or 16/46/16. Killing RGs are still killing RGs, a -1 is still a -1, but the impact is far less than what it used to be. And again, drawing 1 from Gigi does not lock me out of retiring another 3~5 cards or more from my games; it's trading 1, up to 2 very very slow ones, for 1 draw.
1/2. 33% on Triple Drive is quite low when compared to 42% on Twin Drive. The problem with Draws is that you get nothing else aside from 10k shield, while with other triggers you get an extra damage, get an extra attack, or get healed while getting 10k shield at the same time. While split shielding and advantage on damage are arguments with some merit, the former is only effective when the opponent has a one-stage column (which isn't something a player generally wants, because, surprise, it makes draw triggers more useful than they truly are) or has just checked a trigger that makes a column three stages. Basically, you have to rely on your opponent to be able to maximize a draw trigger's potential. In the former's case, your opponent is playing suboptimally (unlikely) while in the latter's case, your opponent has more advantage than you already were he or she to run something like 12 crit (or no draws). Draws strictly cut the total shielding capability of the deck, and the impact is most visible when you come to the point where you have to guard every attack coming your way.
DeleteDamaging a draw trigger being a strict +1 means you are relying on chance to actually get it into damage, while at the same time you want to control your damage so that you don't get pushed too fast into late game. Assuming that you heal once per game, you have 6 chances to have a draw hit the damage zone. Increasing draws to increase this chance cuts shielding and nets you negative advantage opportunity cost-wise. You're not exactly gaining advantage with this; you're sacrificing the benefits of an extra damage and/or an extra attack (which actually do help you reach your win condition; as opposed to this draws are desgined to make it harder to reach his/her condition). Crits and Stands help one to win, Draws help one to not lose (heals are to awesome to be compared, so yeah), and I'm personally banking my chances on the former.
And no, V-Mundi is not misinforming me. While the attitude of members there are probably rather harsh, their calculations and facts are solid and proven. Attitude of an individual should not be a reason for you to dislike facts given by said individual.
6. 6 turns? GB1 is probably Turn 3/4, and with Chronojet there's your first CB usage. You're supposed use the CB simultaneously with Ragnaclock (I'm talking Tom again here) because the unflipper allows you to.
@SomeGamerDude: Chronojet's GB2 is probably going to be left unused, so you have Toms and a huge vanguard. PGs go to the Toms, and guarding 26k with a potential boost means 3 cards from the hand. I know that Toms and Glories don't mesh well.
@froliz->ozero: Tournaments still don't count because most of the population is running 8 crit 4 draw in the first place. Especially during a huge sample size over the years, the misinterpretation that 8 crit 4 draw is the best has stuck to people's minds, and this dominoes into the following years. Making this worse is that not all of the remainder runs 12 crit; we have 6 crit 6 draw, 7 crit 5 draw, and Rainbow, to name a few more common ones (all of which are worse than 8 crit 4 draw). 12 crit is generally disregarded according to what I know (cmmiw w/ evidence) and, no matter how optimal it is, one 12 crit deck is unlikely to dominate in a tournament of 199 8 crit 4 draw.
@froliz->SGD: >>12 crits, chance of hitting at least 1 crit is 43.38%. That's from Twin Drive, right? If you're referring to Triple Drive, then something must be off, since the chance of at least one trigger in Triple Drive is 75% (calculation CEO Amaterasu's divination) and the chances for a crit should be roughly 75% of that 75% (making that 56.25%).
@froliz->me, part 2: How draws speed up the game and give you momentum is beyond me. Drawing a card for something that can help you do more damage and win the game? Why not get a direct extra damage via critical, or a direct extra attack via stand? And you're telling me to run draws to help myself build a field for crits? By running draws, I'm already decreasing my chances of getting a critical. Now I can't rely on 4 draws (random and shield-cutting) and only 8 crits (I needed a crit to end the game, and then I got a draw instead). I'm splitting consistency on both sides that way, and I am of the opinion that it is much better to focus on the crits (consistently critting here and there) compared to being able to build a field and critting to death with less consistency on both aspects. Suffering from improper columns not only contradicts your previous arguments on Gigi, but also means that you're running something with abysmal power in the first place when your goal is to make as many proper columns as possible, as consistent as possible.
DeleteAnd if Gear Chronicle slows the game down, wouldn't running maximum criticals at least remedy that? You're increasing your overall damage output, which is what you need to win the game. Draws don't do that (not directly, at least), and, worst of all, they're random.
Using soul for Silent Tom clones and using soul for Gigi differs. While they're visibly a +1 at first, the chance of triggers make it so that your payment of Toms becomes an investment; you start with +1 and have a probability to increase that. The fact that the Toms net the same advantage as Gigi at worst is what makes them better. They convert one card to at least 2 or at least 1 damage. Gigi, on the other hand, is a random +1, 5k booster, and vanilla afterwards. Dedicating Fate Rider to search Gigi means you're aiming for an immediate plus, while tutoring Silent Tom pieces means you're investing in resources. Both are equally good methods of gaining advantage, but in Gear Chronicle, the clan's design clearly signifies that it's meant to do the latter.
How one random draw increases consistency is way beyond me. Sure, it's faster, but, again, you lose out on opportunity cost and lack the ability to invest. And, to be honest, how the retire impacts the opponent (and, actually, the retire itself) is a pure bonus; you get a Silent Tom activation for it thanks to Ishin existing, and that harder-to-guard attack may as well net you a damage gap, an advantage gap, or victory. The retire isn't meant to hurt. The fact that it enables Ishin is, and with Ragna, Ishin, and Puzur, the opponent is likely to need all 4 PG's in the span of 2 turns, given that the trigger chances are 75% with Triple Drive. Guarding a powered Ishin with 5k shields is a strict -3, and the opponent will probably want to let it in. Oh wait, the trigger I just checked was a critical. Even better, since you get a wider damage gap, a definite plus because the opponent would lose otherwise, or just victory. The GC retire is just a bonus, really. The guard restriction is what should actually be focused on.
And by the way, I go by SoniChris98 on v*Mundi, Pojo, Wikia, and wherever I am on the net. Do we have somewhere else to continue this, were it to be a need? I personally don't want to clutter your blog with blocks of comments.
For some reason I thought that Ragnaclock was Glory aswell, not Tom. Now I feel silly. Serves me right for posting when I did, 5:30am-ish local time. I swear I've made a fool of myself via this before.
ReplyDeleteAlso learned my lesson later yesterday fighting it for the first time and didn't have enough in hand to stop it, as I wasted my PGs presuming 2x Crit in Triple Drive, which never happened.
And yeah, I used Twin Drive because I don't have the full numbers for Triple, but common sense means it's higher than Twin by a considerable amount, Base Trigger Chance, 1/3, is 70% vs 56% for 1/2. If anyone wants to help, I'm missing the equation for Two Triggers during Triple Drive.
@Christopher Martinus
ReplyDeleteNo, I think you read it wrong. Draws does NOT give you momentum. It's the reason why I don't run them in decks like Silver Thorn. Draws gives you more options and time as well as answers for decks that slow other decks down like GC and most control based decks. It's not something to 'remedy', it's something control decks are like in basically any TCG.
Again, you need to stop assuming critical trigger happens with Tom clones. 43% is not 100%, and is not even 50%. All your argument of 'if a critical trigger happens' is basically moot, because you can't control what you drive check. Argument of Gigi going vanilla is also moot because you can't realistically use Pazu-Iil more than once per game, making him basically vanilla as well. Especially when you refuse to even run Margal clones (being one of the few ways GC can actually acquire souls), which basically from what we have seen since the beginning of time of the game, already known for being absolutely amazing triggers.
On a side note, if you REALLY want to go 12 crit and go balls, forgoing even Margal clones, I saw a pretty interesting idea on XPG that might work
Deck list basically goes something like this, tweak to taste:
G-zone:
1/1/2/4 we all know what this is
G3:
Chrono Jet *4
Divergence Dragon *4
G2:
Ishin *4
Amber *4
Gear Tiger *3
G1:
PGG *4
Steam Breath *4
Meshe-he *3 (and really, 2 is enough, I only put 3 here because this was the list)
Alpha Wold *3 (I think we can both agree this is garbage, just stick with Dzkal/Ulunin)
FVG:
Timepiece *1
Trigger:
(H) Ulunin *4
(C) Doki Doki *4
(C) Steam Battler, Dadasig *4 (I'd actually go with a 1/3 or 2/2 split of the two other available crits here to mess with trigger counting)
(D) Lucky Pot *4 (obviously sub for crits if you truely believe crits are so superior to even justify Margal clones just because they're draws)
I think the idea of the deck is pretty straight forward and easy to see; beat the crap out of your opponent while retiring them here and there
GC isn't supposed to be a control deck, though. The control is honestly just a bonus and activates or assists your Silent Tom gambits. And even in control decks, I don't see how draws provide enough of those options and time you speak of.
DeleteIt is exactly because Crits don't always happen that I want to max them out. I said before that, while Gigi is vanilla afterwards, Puzur costs the same and gives you at least the same advantage, with said advantage becoming better with every crit/trigger you check. The fact that Puzur has the chance to be better than Gigi when he is both used is why I am not running Gigi; with both likely becoming vanilla afterwards, I'm choosing the one with more possibility of being better when used (and the one that doesn't already have abysmal power in the first place). Moreover, timed correctly, Puzur can win you games immediately. Gigi does not.
I see Margal clones being regarded as good often, and I don't understand why. That 5k shield still hurts, and, while it may be better in Gear due to the lack of a soul engine, they still cut into crits, which are vital to the (my, at least) winning strategy. I get more chances of fueling my Toms, but I get fewer chances of making them actually matter. That's the problem. 8 vs 12 is a significant difference, and it becomes more significant (and problematic) when that difference of 4 is filled by something of strictly less value (5k shielding against 10k shielding, problems with consistency of winning image).
And with Ruin Disposal, reriding over a Legion with another gives you 2 soul for Puzur and a bottomdeck on-Legion for Ishin.
As for that decklist, why Divergence Dragon is ran isn't something I understand. But then, it isn't yours, so I'm not going to elaborate much on it.
And dang I completely forgot about the tiger guy. He's maybe a cheaper Puzur in getting more damage in, but is technically worse in winning the game right there and then. And I'm still running Puzur even with that because I run Ruin Disposal.
What the hell is Alpha Wold?
My finalized decklist, if anyone wants to try:
1x Gunner Gear
12 crit 4 heal
4x PGG
4x Steam Breath
4x Dizkal
2x Mesh-he
4x Puzur-Ili
4x Ishin
3x Amber
4x Chronojet
4x Ruin Disposal
4x Ragna
2x Fate Rider
1x Chronos
1x Lost Age
First of all, again, draws do NOT reduce your shielding power unless you draw into it during your draw phase, so no the 5k shield on average does not hurt.
DeleteSecond of all, I'm pointing out crits don't always happen because when comparing Gigi to Pazu-Ili, you're already counting chickens off your hard-boilded egg as if the crit. Also, if you truly want to maximize crits, you should drop heal triggers as well and just go 16 crits (obviously GC doesn't have that yet, but by that logic then this is what you should be doing and never run heals because "4 is so inconsistent").
And no, Gigi lets you lose less games more frequently than Pazu-Ili will win you games, she still can win you games. That's also the case with draw triggers.
If you keep having the misconception and such strong bias against draws, you will continue to not understand why Margal clones are good when you're having all the wrong ideas of draw triggers.
Draws are 5k shield, yes, but on average they yield you 10k shield, so you do not lose out on shields on average. Draws are pure +1s when you damage check them. Draws still give your RGs +5k power, which basically does the same thing crit does when opponent is at 5 damage. Just like how you are viewing Gigi in a way as if a single use of Gigi locks you out of all the other retires and plays, it seems you're seeing draws in the exact same way. Running draws doesn't stop you from checking crits. Running draws doesn't suddenly make it safe for your opponent to NG your vanguard.
As for why Margal clones are good, it's simple really. They break magic numbers. They fuel souls which translates to further indirect plus if you can use that resource. They can be fielded to boost/attack without you having to worry about commiting to that field because it can just slide away. They can convert resources in your hand that is usually only useful defensively into offense on demand. They can be the last straw that breaks the camel's back for your final turn or to force your opponent into a losing situation.
And it's not Alpha Wold, I apologize for the typo. It's the Gear Wolf I'm talking about. It was late when I typed the reply, and it was after a long day's work on a project from work that I'm still working on.
Alright, it doesn't reduce the shielding. But what else do you get? +5k power? Every other trigger does that. And every other trigger gives you something else aside from 10k shield and 5k power. An extra card? Oh, okay, that extra card is part of the shielding. So, you either get +10k shielding total, or +5k shielding and an extra card along with the default +5k power.
DeleteYou're pointing out that crits don't always happen and aren't even trying to maximize said chances. And 4 heals, even if "inconsistent", are way better than 4 draws. They activate whenever checked and still give you 10k shield and 5k power on top of that. 12 crit 4 heal, furthermore, has proven to be the most optimal trigger lineup so far.
Please elaborate on how Gigi lets you lose fewer games than Puzur-Ili. I still fail to understand how. You have not provided enough evidence in this regard.
My bias against draws is perhaps as strong against your bias against V-Mundi. Read (or reread) the "Draw Trigger Details" article. Unlike me, Alice bases her arguments on facts and isn't even biased. Look at how she admits that some of the common arguments do have merit.
Draws are a pure +1 when damaged checked, but then, as stated above, you lose out on either a 5k shield or an extra effect (given that the draw into the additional 5k shield is not regarded due to it contributing to the average 10k shield you would have). The problem? You drive check more than you damage check. You lose more often than you gain. Running draws don't stop me from checking crits, but it stops me from checking more crits. It doesn't make it safe to no-guard the vanguard, but it makes it safer to do so. Those chances are where things differ.
Magic numbers, like what? Grade 3 and a 7k booster? Not happening with my deck's winning image.
DeleteOkay, they fuel soul, but I also have the crit and Legion. And honestly, not even that much soul is used. Puzur is supposed to be backup to Ishin, anyway. And I don't use Gigi.
Flexibility is good. However, if I have to give up the more beneficial crits for that, no thanks. As I said before, you lose more than you gain with draws because they're random and you drive check them more than you damage check them.
"They can convert resources in your hand that is usually only useful defensively into offense on demand." That's if your draw trigger has some kind of skill in the first place (and with Luckypot, it does). And, should this be the case, I agree. Look at Hysteric Shirley. 2 soul in the main phase means massive boosts to Doreen and Izaya, and that plus helps Dark Irregulars winning images a lot. Read the "The Effects of the Card" subheading in the article I mentioned before. Margal clones, however, do little to nothing aside from soul-filling (the +3k is probably not going to help much unless you somehow have an 18k column of G3 + 7k when you have better units to attack with in the first place). If anything, the advantage draws give is erratic and has too many variables stuck to it. Things become ifs with draws, while with other triggers you gain static advantage that can actually be calculated properly in the first place. Finally, if you're using a vanilla draw trigger ever, I can do the same with vanilla crits and boost for 5k. I lose 10k, but I gained a crit and 5k power before. With draws, I only lose 5k, but I only gained the remaining 5k and 5k power. It's basically a "lose more, gain more" situation, and when the gain actually matters more (winning instead of not losing), yeah, I guess I'll stick with crits.
"They can be the last straw that breaks the camel's back for your final turn or to force your opponent into a losing situation." Example, please?
Understanding what happened to your keyboard that makes "Gear Wolf" into "Alpha Wold" is probably harder than removing my bias on draws (honestly I was at first biased against draws when I knew the game for the first time, refused to use them when I started playing, and then it was proven that they were indeed suboptimal compared to crits, so I don't know if I'm biased or not, lol). Or was it purely human error?
That aside, may the best be achieved from your project, and don't lose out on rest the way I lose out on purely unbiased opinions on every existing trigger. Thank you for replying even during your exhaustion.
And here I go exceeding the 4,096 character limit here for like the fourth time.