Silver Thorn BT15 Build Laboratory
Hybrid - Stable 1
For the list of Silver Thorn card effects, click here
FVG:
- Silver Thorn Beast Tamer, Emil *1 (set in stone)
Triggers *16: (10 Crit/2 Draw/4 Heal)
- Dynamite Juggler (Critical) *2
- Poison Juggler (Critical) *4 (set in stone, unless playing none-crit variant)
- Silver Thorn Barking Dragon (Critical) *4 (set in stone, unless playing none-crit variant)
- Silver Thorn Marionette, Natasha (Draw) *2
- Silver Thorn Juggler, Nadia (Heal) *4 (set in stone)
Grade 1 *14:
- Silver Thorn Breathing Dragon *1
- Silver Thorn Assistant, Irina *1
- Silver Thorn Assistant, Zelma *4 (set in stone)
- Silver Thorn Beast Tamer, Ana *4 (set in stone)
- Silver Thorn Hypnos, Lydia *4 (set in stone)
Grade 2 *11:
- Silver Thorn Beast Tamer, Maricica *3 (set in stone)
- Silver Thorn Rising Dragon *4 (set in stone)
- Silver Thorn Upright Lion *4 (set in stone)
Grade 3 *8:
- Silver Thorn Dragon Empress, Venus Luquier *2
- Silver Thorn Dragon Queen, Luquier "Яeverse" *3
- Silver Thorn Dragon Tamer, Luquier *3
This is a hybrid build that utilizes both cross ride forms. It allows for resource play (Reverse), and fast recovery as well as explosive play (Venus + Luquier + Upright Lion).
The build is also hybrid in a sense that I try to balance a strong early game (Ana/Maricia/Zelma + Upright Lion/Rising Dragon) while still keeping a decent late game presence and maintain the ability to push for game (4 Upright Lion, 2 Venus + 3 Luquier). The proportion between Luquier Reverse and Luquier Venus can be adjusted based off play style, but you would never want to run more than 3 base Luquiers as 3 already gives you incredible consistency to soul charge or Zelma-cross ride into one.
Early game strength comes from Ana/Miricia/Zelma trio, as well as having access to 8 12k hitters early game (Upright Lion & Rising Dragon) and 10 crits (12 works too). Draw trigger reduces the chance for ECB to screw you up and is Zelma-compatible. Unlike typical ECB2 users, Venus usually needs 2/2 CB to be ECBs as opposed to typical 2/4, because the first 2 counter blasts usually go to Ana/Maricica, meaning Venus relies on your 3rd and 4th CB most of the time. And using this calculator, we know that at 8 none-Silver-Thorn cards in the deck, getting 2/2 of your damage to be ECB is just shy of 70%, meaning you will fail to have the ECB2 for your Venus ~3/10 of your games, which is actually pretty high. Juggle the numbers yourself based off what you think is worth the trade off. The reason Ana is maxed but Maricica is not is purely due to opportunity cost of Maricica. Silver Thorns doesn't have a strong final turn push otherwise without Eva, and Lion is absolutely needed besides Poison Juggler for a final push.
Late game strength diverge in 2 ways - Venus/Luquier for a big push with the help of Upright Lion, or geared for extended battle with Reverse that pressures with 21k columns (naturally with Reverse, or with help of Upright Lion and Zelma combo). With the help of Emil, if I have the momentum on my side, I can easily abuse Emil multiple times even with Reverse (call Emil as 10k booster behind a G3 or one of my 8 12k hitters and you'll still have a 21k+ column), and Venus naturally abuses Emil.
Irina adds consistency to getting Zelma or whatever combo piece you need, and Breathing serves as early game attacker (not backup attacker since you rarely run out of attackers). While I don't usually like to tech cards at 1 copy, I find having both at 1 works the best, because that's about as often as I actually need to use them; having either at 2 feels too much. They are the tech choices in this build.
Trigger lineup can be changed. Feel free to sub any amount of Dynamite Juggler into the Silver Thorn draw trigger and vice versa; the rest of the triggers are pretty much set in stone. There are merits in running the ST draw trigger, including but not limited to: 1.) checking it and drawing with it (lol obviously), 2.)It has Silver Thorn name so you can swap it out with Zelma, 3.) Adds additional consistency to Venus's EBC, and 4.) Irina can SC it.
Hi Fro, i noticed that you removed your previous test builds for the BT15 Silver Thorn deck, so this one is your final version a.k.a your favorite build? Also is that 12 Critical lineup? I'm still wondering about my trigger lineup. 12 Critical really help to increase agression and pushing opponent to their limit, but i still run 9 crit 3 draw, just because draw trigger synergize well with crossride defense. What's your take upon the trigger issue?
ReplyDeleteSo this is one of my current builds that's stable and working well, but there's always wiggle room for the G1 tech choices (eg. Midnight Bunny vs. Breathing Dragon vs. Irina) and the G2 proportions (eg. 3 or 4 Maricica)
DeleteThe main reason I removed the test builds is to clean things up a bit and remove obsolete builds I had when I was trying out the new cards; I don't want to mislead people with bad builds or bad proportions.
For future references, if you see I label my build with 'test build', it means it still feels iffy on my end and it's still work in progress because not everything is working as intended. If you see 'stable build', it means it's fairly stable and is working the way I want it to work.
All of my stable builds are working builds that works as intended, and the variations between the stable builds are essentially between different trade offs.
As for trigger lineup, 12 crit with 4 Zelma/Ana gives you a very strong early game. Draw triggers do work in that you can swap them out with Zelma for useful things early on, but they screw you up in the late game after you have already condensed your deck several times with Emil because Emil can't remove the draw triggers from the deck.
Fro, i need some tips here. Do you have a build you favored back then during the BT12 era? I'm currently going for the Team League Invasion and playing as a part of Invader (along with CBD deck and Dai R) as a Luquier R.
DeleteCurrently i go for full crossride build which is more favorable for me to get the consistent 13k defense. The issue is the G1 lineup. Other than 4 PG and 4 Irina, i used 2 of each Bunny, Trape, and Seesaw.
The problems come when i don't have Irina to ride as my G1 vanguard (1 out of 5/6 games). I will fall behind in soulcharging (since Ionela can't do without ST vanguard). This is quite annoying, especially against retire based deck that tends to snipe my Ionela early. I might not be able to build any soul at all.
What do you suggest? I only need Seesaw for the deck shuffling (and sometimes early LB). Should i change the G1 lineup? If yes, which one do you think that i should retain, out of the 3 non ST?
Also, my trigger lineup right now is 9 Crit 3 Draw, with the Draw being Rainbow Magician (again, to shuffle the deck) because i hate to play OTT with my trigger and PG stacked at the bottom. Any thoughts?
My favorite cross ride build back in BT12 was this:
DeleteG3 *8:
Luquier *4
Reverse *4
G2 *12:
Maricica *4
Rising Dragon *4
Lilian *4
G1 *13:
PG *4
Irina *4
See-saw Game Winner *2
Purple Trapezist *3
Trigger:
Barking Dragon (Crit) *4
Poison Juggler (Crit)*4
Dynamite Juggler (Crit) *1
Natasha (Draw) *3
FVG:
Ionela *1
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This was an extremely grindy build, tons of intercepts as well. Trapezist can serve as extra copies of Irina if you need her to be and you already have at least 1 copy of Irina around either in your soul or hand/field. 6k booster is fine in this build and meta because the only attacker that forms anything 15k or less with them is Maricica, and there's not much cross riding going on other than STs, and Amons can't cross ride as consistently as STs.
And I only used See-saw Game winner to shuffle. The problem with Rainbow Magician is that being a 4k booster, you can't hit jack. Not even RGs, because you form no big magic number ever. Even behind Rising Dragon, Rainbow Magician only forms a 16k column, which can't even force 15k shield out of a 7k G1. So while Rainbow Magician technically can shuffle, he just almost never will unless your opponent let you do it. Worse aspect is, with normal 5k draw triggers, you can use them as emergency boosters for your 11ks and 12ks. With Rainbow, there's only 4 attackers in the entire deck that they form magic numbers with. And honestly, See-saw Game Winner works very well in the deck anyways.
Some people run a few Nitro Jugglers to boost SC power, and it seems to work fine. If you reeeeally are having trouble soul charging, you can give that a try.
Thanks for the advice, will try some testing with those advice.
DeleteAnd one more thing, what do you think about mix Eva build (not a pure crossride)? I'd also like to have some alternatives, especially since it's already CBD era by that time i play, and pure CR build will have it hard countered by those Jokers. Is it better to try for consistency with pure CR, or some agression with Eva, considering the possible meta scene of BT 13?
Thanks a lot. :)
Eva build is nice. It's a different flavor with a potential to grind like the CR build. For BT12 meta with Raging Form and EDD, honestly I think CR build is the better build. But the BR build is definitely good, and if you like being offensive more than being defensive, you'd like the BR build.
DeleteRegarding CBD, BR or CR you're going to be hard countered, so it doesn't really matter.